1 00:00:00,460 --> 00:00:03,210 (Haunting music) 2 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:27,993 - And the tree line would have come 3 00:00:27,994 --> 00:00:29,579 all the way up here back then or? 4 00:00:29,580 --> 00:00:32,935 - No no, that's like when they got here, 5 00:00:32,936 --> 00:00:34,496 they're out in the field and their like, 6 00:00:34,497 --> 00:00:37,019 "no I was here and this is where it was." 7 00:00:37,020 --> 00:00:41,619 And then yeah, the craft emerged from out when they all 8 00:00:41,620 --> 00:00:44,739 got back here from out back there behind that tree line. 9 00:00:44,740 --> 00:00:45,573 - Okay, wow. 10 00:00:45,574 --> 00:00:46,719 - I mean it emerged. 11 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,891 - They just saw red light coming from behind the trees? 12 00:00:50,892 --> 00:00:53,726 - At first and then, yeah at closest 13 00:00:53,727 --> 00:00:56,093 they were about a hundred feet from it. 14 00:00:56,094 --> 00:00:58,559 It was about a hundred feet off the ground. 15 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,329 The landscape does actually drop down back there. 16 00:01:01,330 --> 00:01:06,110 In theory if there was a big craft it could hide there. 17 00:01:07,376 --> 00:01:10,126 (Haunting music) 18 00:01:13,090 --> 00:01:16,029 - The big event was called the incident at exeter 19 00:01:16,030 --> 00:01:19,659 and the incident at exeter really became known to people 20 00:01:19,660 --> 00:01:22,519 far and wide after John Fuller's book came out. 21 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,799 And it brought into fame and under the spotlight 22 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,359 several figures, one was Norman muscarello, 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,799 who was as a kid going into the Navy 24 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:35,109 at 18 years old back in the fall of 1965. 25 00:01:35,110 --> 00:01:38,119 And he was down visiting his girlfriend's. 26 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,359 - Norman muscarello was hitchhiking home from his 27 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,249 girlfriend's house in amesbury and as he got to this 28 00:01:44,250 --> 00:01:46,529 farm this large red object kind of 29 00:01:46,530 --> 00:01:48,019 swooped at him out of the sky. 30 00:01:48,020 --> 00:01:51,479 He was terrified and dove behind a stone wall. 31 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,369 - Because it came out of red glow 32 00:01:53,370 --> 00:01:57,189 with alternating blinking lights back and forth 33 00:01:57,190 --> 00:01:58,446 and it literally terrified him. 34 00:01:58,447 --> 00:02:00,652 He was not somebody who got scared that easy. 35 00:02:00,653 --> 00:02:03,009 - Well he was lying in this ditch behind to stone wall, 36 00:02:03,010 --> 00:02:05,399 the object made a few more passes over him. 37 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,229 Then when he thought it was safe to get up 38 00:02:07,230 --> 00:02:08,879 he ran to the neighboring farm house 39 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:10,429 and pounded on the door. 40 00:02:10,430 --> 00:02:11,659 This was like at 1:00 in the morning 41 00:02:11,660 --> 00:02:13,639 and they're like we don't care what's going on 42 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:15,439 we're not opening the door for this. 43 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,339 - And began walking toward exeter and hitchhiking 44 00:02:18,340 --> 00:02:20,499 and a car came by that did eventually pick him up. 45 00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:23,539 He gets to the police station and he was shaking, 46 00:02:23,540 --> 00:02:25,926 a nervous wreck, could hardly light his cigarette. 47 00:02:25,927 --> 00:02:28,579 Officer Reginald Toland was on duty at the desk. 48 00:02:28,580 --> 00:02:31,009 - And he knew Norman from around town, 49 00:02:31,010 --> 00:02:32,211 he knew he was a good kid. 50 00:02:32,212 --> 00:02:34,779 He could tell he was visibly shaken, 51 00:02:34,780 --> 00:02:36,299 he knew something had happened 52 00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:38,629 but it couldn't be what he was describing. 53 00:02:38,630 --> 00:02:40,659 I mean that just didn't make any sense to him. 54 00:02:40,660 --> 00:02:43,039 It was about this time that officer bertrand 55 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,469 walked into the station and heard the story, 56 00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:48,349 and he was really intrigued by it because 57 00:02:48,350 --> 00:02:52,219 he had just, about an hour early on route 101, 58 00:02:52,220 --> 00:02:55,089 found a stopped car with two women in it who where frantic. 59 00:02:55,090 --> 00:02:57,049 When he approached the car and asked what was going on 60 00:02:57,050 --> 00:02:58,339 they reported they were chased for 61 00:02:58,340 --> 00:03:01,457 about 12 miles by a large red ufo. 62 00:03:03,533 --> 00:03:06,369 - So when the muscarello report came in 63 00:03:06,370 --> 00:03:07,609 it kind of resonated with him. 64 00:03:07,610 --> 00:03:10,669 Officer bertrand thought, I think I'll pick up muscarello, 65 00:03:10,670 --> 00:03:12,269 we'll go back out to the site. 66 00:03:12,270 --> 00:03:14,330 So he picked up the shaking white 67 00:03:14,331 --> 00:03:17,919 petrified young muscarello, they went out there. 68 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:19,929 - They got out of the car, they get into the field, 69 00:03:19,930 --> 00:03:22,070 they're not seeing anything. 70 00:03:22,071 --> 00:03:23,238 - There was really nothing to be seen 71 00:03:23,239 --> 00:03:25,949 and then all of a sudden from behind the tree line 72 00:03:25,950 --> 00:03:29,319 the manifestation of an object that was glowing red 73 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,819 rolls up out of behind the pine trees and it moved forward 74 00:03:32,820 --> 00:03:36,679 and started to come over the policeman and muscarello. 75 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,929 - So muscarello froze in panic, bertrand dragged muscarello 76 00:03:40,930 --> 00:03:43,599 back to the cruiser and they called for backup. 77 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,919 Officer hunt was already on his way. 78 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,749 Hunt could see the object as he was pulling up to the scene. 79 00:03:48,750 --> 00:03:51,329 - David hunt arrived as it was just starting 80 00:03:51,330 --> 00:03:53,839 to bip to head off towards Hampton beach, 81 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,906 where you guys are staying, over in that area. 82 00:03:55,907 --> 00:03:59,499 And the light was a blood red, was on both houses, 83 00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:01,839 farm houses on either side like that. 84 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,919 - They all noted that the lights on it all blinked 85 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,362 in the same pattern, like one, two, three, four, 86 00:04:06,363 --> 00:04:08,349 four, three, two, one. 87 00:04:08,350 --> 00:04:10,429 They said at the closest it was probably 88 00:04:10,430 --> 00:04:11,619 about hundred feet from them, 89 00:04:11,620 --> 00:04:15,343 a hundred feet off the ground and about the size of a house. 90 00:04:17,299 --> 00:04:19,966 (Intense music) 91 00:04:25,159 --> 00:04:27,909 (Dramatic music) 92 00:05:34,028 --> 00:05:36,778 (Haunting music) 93 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,079 - The exeter incident is, on the surface, 94 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,689 just another ufo sighting. 95 00:05:43,690 --> 00:05:46,189 The most intriguing aspect of the event seems 96 00:05:46,190 --> 00:05:48,679 to be the number of witnesses involved, as well as the 97 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,609 amount of the time object stayed on the scene. 98 00:05:52,610 --> 00:05:55,299 Like Dan weiss's sighting, the fact that these crafts 99 00:05:55,300 --> 00:05:57,989 seem to hover in the air with lights flashing flies 100 00:05:57,990 --> 00:06:00,129 in the face of what we would expect from visitors 101 00:06:00,130 --> 00:06:04,716 from another galaxy attempting to simply observe humanity. 102 00:06:04,717 --> 00:06:08,829 Ufos have supposedly been visiting us for centuries now. 103 00:06:08,830 --> 00:06:12,859 But we still have no idea what their origins are. 104 00:06:12,860 --> 00:06:15,509 But that hasn't stopped researchers, investigators, 105 00:06:15,510 --> 00:06:18,159 and television theorists from staking their claim 106 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,139 to a multitude of ideas as to where the uaps are coming from 107 00:06:22,140 --> 00:06:24,209 and yet, it all really boils down 108 00:06:24,210 --> 00:06:26,803 to just a small handful of core ideas. 109 00:06:28,260 --> 00:06:30,749 Martin howata, or molava, 110 00:06:30,750 --> 00:06:33,819 is a tribal elder who lives near rimrock Arizona 111 00:06:33,820 --> 00:06:36,359 who can set the stage for the centuries of beliefs 112 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,069 relating to the possible root of the uap mystery. 113 00:06:40,070 --> 00:06:42,009 During our discussion we were instructed 114 00:06:42,010 --> 00:06:45,129 to leave the name of molava's tribe out of the interview. 115 00:06:45,130 --> 00:06:49,059 And also to refer to him as a native American. 116 00:06:49,060 --> 00:06:51,229 It's important to remember that simply boiling 117 00:06:51,230 --> 00:06:53,839 down a belief system like of molava's people 118 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:56,799 into one core principle is impossible. 119 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,819 His people have distilled centuries of stories 120 00:06:59,820 --> 00:07:03,429 regarding the past and future of mankind into a series 121 00:07:03,430 --> 00:07:06,649 of sacred objects that no one outside of molava's people, 122 00:07:06,650 --> 00:07:11,149 and a few trusted friends, have ever even seen before. 123 00:07:11,150 --> 00:07:14,269 The objects help to tell the tale of the star people, 124 00:07:14,270 --> 00:07:16,419 who according to his ancestors, 125 00:07:16,420 --> 00:07:19,269 have been visiting earth since the beginning of time 126 00:07:19,270 --> 00:07:22,239 in an effort to save us from ourselves. 127 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:23,846 - I have to put it in a way that 128 00:07:23,847 --> 00:07:26,169 I have to protect my people. 129 00:07:26,170 --> 00:07:28,816 Okay so I'll tell you some of these things, 130 00:07:28,817 --> 00:07:30,989 and I'll show you some of the things. 131 00:07:30,990 --> 00:07:33,199 I really only showed a few people. 132 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:34,569 This is the star people. 133 00:07:34,570 --> 00:07:39,289 They're not of this, they're not from here, 134 00:07:39,290 --> 00:07:41,219 they're from a different place. 135 00:07:41,220 --> 00:07:44,289 So what they would do they would look for these xs 136 00:07:44,290 --> 00:07:46,229 on different planets and different worlds 137 00:07:46,230 --> 00:07:49,462 and different places on our earth. 138 00:07:49,463 --> 00:07:53,389 That's why if you look really close to this he's 139 00:07:53,390 --> 00:07:57,169 sitting on some type of, it looks like a triangle. 140 00:07:57,170 --> 00:07:59,489 A black triangle down here. 141 00:07:59,490 --> 00:08:03,323 This over here in the corner means infinity. 142 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:10,229 Like outer space where it doesn't ever end. 143 00:08:10,230 --> 00:08:14,949 And then behind him is a giant star where he comes from 144 00:08:14,950 --> 00:08:19,950 and over here is the moon, 145 00:08:20,304 --> 00:08:25,304 and this is earth, this is like his space ship. 146 00:08:25,524 --> 00:08:27,252 But it doesn't look like this, 147 00:08:27,253 --> 00:08:31,869 this what they made to tell you the story. 148 00:08:31,870 --> 00:08:35,569 So all these stories are part of all this 149 00:08:35,570 --> 00:08:40,063 and there's a lot more that goes to that, to this. 150 00:08:40,900 --> 00:08:44,979 This is the bottom where he takes off. 151 00:08:44,980 --> 00:08:49,669 This is clouds, this doll is not Mayan. 152 00:08:49,670 --> 00:08:51,983 But the headdress is Mayan 153 00:08:51,984 --> 00:08:55,599 because they're descendants of who we are. 154 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,134 These star beams here, this is their portal 155 00:08:59,135 --> 00:09:03,549 that they can go from one to another. 156 00:09:03,550 --> 00:09:05,809 - While malava's beliefs relating to ufos 157 00:09:05,810 --> 00:09:08,589 crossed the spiritual with the otherworldly, 158 00:09:08,590 --> 00:09:12,059 in ufo circles the extraterrestrial hypothesis 159 00:09:12,060 --> 00:09:15,299 is the most commonly accepted idea as to who is piloting 160 00:09:15,300 --> 00:09:18,313 those unknown objects seen around the world. 161 00:09:19,580 --> 00:09:22,389 - Because the ufo phenomenon is so widespread 162 00:09:22,390 --> 00:09:24,319 and hits a diversity of people, 163 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,519 and because we don't really know what is responsible for 164 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,749 the sightings there is a whole breath of possibilities 165 00:09:30,750 --> 00:09:33,739 and theories for what is actually a ufo 166 00:09:33,740 --> 00:09:37,091 or what's behind ufo or what's piloting a ufo. 167 00:09:37,092 --> 00:09:38,909 - I think for the most part most people probably fall 168 00:09:38,910 --> 00:09:42,719 into the nuts and bolts, or classic et theory, 169 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,269 where it's the little green men sort of thing. 170 00:09:45,270 --> 00:09:48,912 - Extraterrestrials, which are beings from another planet, 171 00:09:48,913 --> 00:09:52,159 another solar system, another galaxy that are coming 172 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,919 into ours and they have a variety 173 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,796 of different agenda along with that. 174 00:09:57,797 --> 00:09:59,129 - And that's speaking broadly for 175 00:09:59,130 --> 00:10:01,019 the general population as well, 176 00:10:01,020 --> 00:10:03,219 I think people are more susceptible to kind of look 177 00:10:03,220 --> 00:10:05,371 at that part of the ufo world 178 00:10:05,372 --> 00:10:07,419 and that's where most people start out, 179 00:10:07,420 --> 00:10:09,069 and then either move into other areas 180 00:10:09,070 --> 00:10:12,599 or really entrench themselves, or become skeptics. 181 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:17,263 - The theories range from everything from simply earth like, 182 00:10:17,264 --> 00:10:21,687 unexplained naturally occurring phenomena, 183 00:10:21,688 --> 00:10:26,688 all the way to the point of them being identified as craft 184 00:10:27,890 --> 00:10:30,789 or spaceships from other worlds being piloted 185 00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:33,319 by extraterrestrial entities. 186 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,091 - Some people like to isolate that and say, 187 00:10:37,092 --> 00:10:39,556 "oh these are physical craft that 188 00:10:39,557 --> 00:10:41,339 "come here from another planet." 189 00:10:41,340 --> 00:10:43,915 - The more conservative kind of feel like they're probes 190 00:10:43,916 --> 00:10:47,179 that are unmanned that are coming here to check us out. 191 00:10:47,180 --> 00:10:50,339 Others feel maybe they are manned probes that are doing 192 00:10:50,340 --> 00:10:52,369 the same thing, which is probably what we would do 193 00:10:52,370 --> 00:10:54,709 if we found a planet that was inhabited. 194 00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:59,710 We'd want to try to discreetly observe what they were up to. 195 00:10:59,770 --> 00:11:02,899 - One of my favorite cases actually happened in New Jersey, 196 00:11:02,900 --> 00:11:05,759 here on the east coast, and it was a witness 197 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,931 by the name of George o'barsky. 198 00:11:07,932 --> 00:11:10,179 This was back in 1975 and he was coming home, 199 00:11:10,180 --> 00:11:11,939 it was 3:00 in the morning, 200 00:11:11,940 --> 00:11:13,219 he'd just closed up his shop. 201 00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:15,507 He was going down the New Jersey turnpike 202 00:11:15,508 --> 00:11:20,508 and he saw what he described as a puffed up pancake 203 00:11:21,420 --> 00:11:24,199 in the air, metallic and illuminated. 204 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,109 And it was just hovering over this park. 205 00:11:26,110 --> 00:11:28,539 He pulled over and he gets out 206 00:11:28,540 --> 00:11:31,855 and he's looking at this floating metallic pancake 207 00:11:31,856 --> 00:11:36,856 and he sees two small beings beneath the craft 208 00:11:37,467 --> 00:11:38,989 and they're kind of hunched over 209 00:11:38,990 --> 00:11:41,649 and he doesn't know what they're doing so he gets closer. 210 00:11:41,650 --> 00:11:43,919 And he said that these beings had what 211 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,809 he described as snowsuits on, 212 00:11:45,810 --> 00:11:48,629 if they were aliens they definitely were prepared. 213 00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:52,029 They were digging into the ground and putting dirt 214 00:11:52,030 --> 00:11:54,879 into these little beakers and canisters, 215 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,519 and he gets closer and closer. 216 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,907 And he thinks that they heard him 217 00:11:59,908 --> 00:12:03,627 and these little snow suited beings, 218 00:12:03,628 --> 00:12:06,439 they scamper back into this craft 219 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,071 and it just disappeared out of sight. 220 00:12:09,072 --> 00:12:12,039 So he gets in his car, he drives home. 221 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:13,999 Did they leave something behind 222 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,209 they were coming back to get? 223 00:12:15,210 --> 00:12:16,949 Or do they just want to know what 224 00:12:16,950 --> 00:12:19,359 this stuff is below their feet? 225 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:24,360 - Why is the initial assumption that these are alien craft? 226 00:12:24,990 --> 00:12:25,823 - It's something that, 227 00:12:25,824 --> 00:12:28,209 okay well military doesn't have an explanation. 228 00:12:28,210 --> 00:12:30,539 There's a whole bunch of these things, 229 00:12:30,540 --> 00:12:31,689 where did they come from? 230 00:12:31,690 --> 00:12:36,069 And I think that sadly people often default to the negative, 231 00:12:36,070 --> 00:12:38,369 so when something like that happens 232 00:12:38,370 --> 00:12:40,029 a lot of times there's an assumption, 233 00:12:40,030 --> 00:12:41,389 oh this has got to be something really bad. 234 00:12:41,390 --> 00:12:43,469 It's got to be something really sinister. 235 00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:45,379 What could be worse than aliens dropping in? 236 00:12:45,380 --> 00:12:47,799 So it melded into the culture 237 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,319 and we get this whole trend towards outer space beings. 238 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:52,409 Now I should say that there 239 00:12:52,410 --> 00:12:53,669 are problems with that, obviously. 240 00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:55,779 There are problems in fact with all of these theories 241 00:12:55,780 --> 00:12:58,680 and that's part of the mystery that we're trying to solve. 242 00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:06,609 - Sam sheeran is a celebrated artist and an old friend. 243 00:13:06,610 --> 00:13:09,439 Like Brian sprag, Sam and I go back to the earliest 244 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,363 days of my show into the fray when he used to cohost. 245 00:13:13,376 --> 00:13:15,919 One of the events that furthered his interest 246 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,712 in unusual subjects was an encounter he had with 247 00:13:18,713 --> 00:13:21,969 a ufo in the skies above Los Angeles. 248 00:13:21,970 --> 00:13:24,919 An incident that helped cement his own personal opinion 249 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,613 on where uaps might be originating. 250 00:13:28,604 --> 00:13:31,799 - So it was Halloween season 2012 in Los Angeles, 251 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,289 Hollywood specifically, 252 00:13:33,290 --> 00:13:36,669 and I was staying with a friend at his apartment. 253 00:13:36,670 --> 00:13:38,379 We decided to step outside 254 00:13:38,380 --> 00:13:40,089 and have a cigarette off the balcony. 255 00:13:40,090 --> 00:13:41,279 We're quite familiar with la, 256 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,809 you see helicopters, you see airplanes coming 257 00:13:43,810 --> 00:13:46,609 from lax and Burbank airport so you're really familiar, 258 00:13:46,610 --> 00:13:48,609 or we were, of what flies around la. 259 00:13:48,610 --> 00:13:50,369 It's not unusual to see helicopters 260 00:13:50,370 --> 00:13:52,511 and beams of light and things like that. 261 00:13:52,512 --> 00:13:54,889 I don't even think we'd lit cigarettes. 262 00:13:54,890 --> 00:13:56,366 My friend says, "what the f is that?" 263 00:13:56,367 --> 00:14:01,148 And we looked and sure enough there's this 264 00:14:01,149 --> 00:14:04,149 formation of lights in a v shape, 265 00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:06,609 your typical classic, you hear it all the time, 266 00:14:06,610 --> 00:14:08,149 the black triangle thing. 267 00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:11,809 But this was just lights, they weren't flashing, 268 00:14:11,810 --> 00:14:13,959 they were kind of shimmering, twinkling. 269 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,609 This thing was maybe the size of a commercial airplane, 270 00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:19,183 maybe a 747, but way way high up 271 00:14:19,184 --> 00:14:22,435 and the lights were so dim on it, all white, 272 00:14:22,436 --> 00:14:25,309 that if you looked away and looked at the stars, 273 00:14:25,310 --> 00:14:26,619 the stars were brighter. 274 00:14:26,620 --> 00:14:27,453 If you looked away you'd lose it 275 00:14:27,454 --> 00:14:30,689 and it was cruising really really slowly. 276 00:14:30,690 --> 00:14:33,149 No sound, no contrail, nothing. 277 00:14:33,150 --> 00:14:34,499 And we watched it until it disappeared, 278 00:14:34,500 --> 00:14:37,359 it literally went over the Hollywood Hills and away. 279 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,567 - You think it was something that we make here 280 00:14:39,568 --> 00:14:41,599 or is it something off planet? 281 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,699 - I've thought long and hard about 282 00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:46,589 what this could have been, I've never seen anything 283 00:14:46,590 --> 00:14:48,883 anywhere else that that was similar to. 284 00:14:48,884 --> 00:14:53,884 This is something that can not only stand stationary, 285 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,139 or fly stationary rather, in the air. 286 00:14:57,140 --> 00:14:59,959 It's silent, it doesn't have any emissions. 287 00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,329 It doesn't seem to have an actual structure to it. 288 00:15:03,330 --> 00:15:04,879 It's just a formation of lights 289 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,299 so that really makes me lean towards 290 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:10,349 maybe it's a visitor, maybe it's a scientist 291 00:15:10,350 --> 00:15:13,119 from another world on a reconnaissance mission. 292 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:18,015 - I think a lot of modern sightings are just misidentified 293 00:15:18,016 --> 00:15:21,279 and actually throughout history people have 294 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,139 a real ignorance of what's in the night sky. 295 00:15:25,140 --> 00:15:29,639 But for a least a hundred years I think there is 296 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:34,640 credible evidence that there are nuts and bolts craft 297 00:15:35,850 --> 00:15:39,889 from places with technology that is not human. 298 00:15:39,890 --> 00:15:42,639 And do I want to say it's alien? 299 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,083 I guess I have to when you eliminate everything else. 300 00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:51,369 - During the earliest days of flying saucer mania 301 00:15:51,370 --> 00:15:53,579 there was almost cult like phantasm 302 00:15:53,580 --> 00:15:57,299 that grew up around ufos and their occupants. 303 00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:00,119 While most sightings revolved around distance observations 304 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,929 of strange lights or craft, 305 00:16:01,930 --> 00:16:04,749 there were a occasional encounters with their pilots. 306 00:16:04,750 --> 00:16:07,499 During the late '50s and into the '70s 307 00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:09,719 a movement grew up around the idea of 308 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,069 extraterrestrials as a sort of savior of humanity. 309 00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:15,779 With many of those claiming contact with the aliens, 310 00:16:15,780 --> 00:16:17,569 gaining an almost prophet like 311 00:16:17,570 --> 00:16:20,609 reputation amongst their followers. 312 00:16:20,610 --> 00:16:24,369 While this is an often overlooked period of ufo history 313 00:16:24,370 --> 00:16:27,259 a lot of the information gleaned from contactees 314 00:16:27,260 --> 00:16:29,939 is still part of the subject today. 315 00:16:29,940 --> 00:16:33,069 It wasn't until investigators like John keel 316 00:16:33,070 --> 00:16:35,499 began discussing the idea of the "others" 317 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:38,119 being dimensional travelers that people began 318 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,699 to consider other possibilities. 319 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:42,799 - There's even groups that believe extraterrestrials 320 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,069 are not necessarily from outer space. 321 00:16:45,070 --> 00:16:48,359 There's a lot of this multi-dimensional theories 322 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,339 being thrown around that these are actually 323 00:16:50,340 --> 00:16:54,589 overlapping worlds, there's flap areas perhaps where 324 00:16:54,590 --> 00:16:58,369 there's high amounts of other paranormal activity going on. 325 00:16:58,370 --> 00:17:00,269 So I think it's interesting that it's taking a little 326 00:17:00,270 --> 00:17:02,199 bit of that turn cause some people are starting 327 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,379 to get more into that train, where they're not from space, 328 00:17:05,380 --> 00:17:07,369 they're from just another world. 329 00:17:07,370 --> 00:17:10,159 They could be us in a parallel universe. 330 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,479 - Ultra-terrestrials are people who are coming form 331 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,389 an alternate dimension other than our own 332 00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:17,659 that stand alongside ours and the barrier 333 00:17:17,660 --> 00:17:20,119 between the two dimensions gets a little wonky or weak 334 00:17:20,120 --> 00:17:22,689 and that allows a pass through between the two. 335 00:17:22,690 --> 00:17:25,679 Or that the aircraft is just so advanced that it's 336 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,929 able to pass through between that barrier 337 00:17:27,930 --> 00:17:31,299 and create a window between the two dimensions. 338 00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:35,170 - I think John keel's place in the whole speculation 339 00:17:35,171 --> 00:17:38,240 around unidentified things in the sky, 340 00:17:38,241 --> 00:17:42,669 his contribution to that was the idea of there being 341 00:17:42,670 --> 00:17:46,479 a cosmic trickster behind the scenes. 342 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,039 I believe he coined the term ultra-terrestrial 343 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,777 to indicate there was a force or a personal presence 344 00:17:53,778 --> 00:17:56,159 operating on a spiritual level 345 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,139 that we typically couldn't see. 346 00:17:58,140 --> 00:18:00,996 This being or beings would from time to time 347 00:18:00,997 --> 00:18:04,981 come into our reality, mostly for the purpose of 348 00:18:04,982 --> 00:18:08,529 just messing with us for reasons of amusement 349 00:18:08,530 --> 00:18:11,967 that it seemed to derive from this activity. 350 00:18:11,968 --> 00:18:16,968 - Where you personally fall in your own theorizing 351 00:18:17,780 --> 00:18:21,510 or beliefs about what is at the heart of the ufo mystery? 352 00:18:21,511 --> 00:18:26,511 - The tricksters are excellent at mimicking 353 00:18:26,793 --> 00:18:30,854 and playing tricks and trying to fool us. 354 00:18:30,855 --> 00:18:35,855 I think it's extreme irony that we think 355 00:18:37,137 --> 00:18:40,079 we're the only people in the entire universe. 356 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,916 - More and more when i'm talking to scientists 357 00:18:42,917 --> 00:18:46,995 who believe that there's something to the ufo phenomena, 358 00:18:46,996 --> 00:18:51,469 they are more apt to believe that these could be 359 00:18:51,470 --> 00:18:54,659 something from alternate universes or other dimensions. 360 00:18:54,660 --> 00:18:57,529 You hear a lot in science about multiple dimensions 361 00:18:57,530 --> 00:19:00,029 and things like this that mathematically the science 362 00:19:00,030 --> 00:19:01,959 shows that this is possible. 363 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:06,737 - I think there's been a move in relatively recent decades 364 00:19:06,738 --> 00:19:10,699 to explain ufos in an inter dimensional way, 365 00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:14,643 to sort of take some of the concepts of modern physics 366 00:19:14,644 --> 00:19:18,459 as their popularly understood and use that as a way of 367 00:19:18,460 --> 00:19:22,929 transporting something across vast spaces and times. 368 00:19:22,930 --> 00:19:26,143 My favorite quite honestly that these craft 369 00:19:26,144 --> 00:19:28,539 are something that are traveling through 370 00:19:28,540 --> 00:19:30,999 dimensional borders from other universes. 371 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,849 I find that one personally very compelling 372 00:19:32,850 --> 00:19:35,769 because of where string theory and quantum physics 373 00:19:35,770 --> 00:19:38,749 has brought us today with this concept that, 374 00:19:38,750 --> 00:19:41,395 oh yeah there are other dimensions of existence, 375 00:19:41,396 --> 00:19:43,839 we don't know how to get there but we know they're there. 376 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,922 - It would account not just for ufos 377 00:19:45,923 --> 00:19:49,089 but also other paranormal phenomenon. 378 00:19:49,090 --> 00:19:52,159 Such as other creatures or maybe even ghosts that maybe 379 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,829 somehow are part of an existence in some other dimension. 380 00:19:55,830 --> 00:19:59,259 So those scientists entertain this idea 381 00:19:59,260 --> 00:20:00,809 and think of this as a theory 382 00:20:00,810 --> 00:20:02,899 that would fit other paranormal phenomenon. 383 00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:06,799 - The idea of wormholes or things of that nature, 384 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,760 portals if you will, has the benefit of being a convenient 385 00:20:09,761 --> 00:20:14,049 imaginative response to the question of 386 00:20:14,050 --> 00:20:16,459 how do you get a craft or a ship from 387 00:20:16,460 --> 00:20:19,469 one place to another across vast distances. 388 00:20:19,470 --> 00:20:21,309 It also has the benefit of 389 00:20:21,310 --> 00:20:24,443 not being provable or disprovable. 390 00:20:25,630 --> 00:20:28,219 - The sheer bizarre nature of some reports is what has 391 00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:31,469 influenced some of today's investigators to look beyond 392 00:20:31,470 --> 00:20:35,829 outer space for answers as to the origins of uaps. 393 00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:38,539 Cases like those often reported in locations like 394 00:20:38,540 --> 00:20:41,539 the Chestnut Ridge, skinwalker ranch or sedona 395 00:20:41,540 --> 00:20:44,549 seem to defy what logic would dictate if we are in 396 00:20:44,550 --> 00:20:47,223 fact dealing with a visitor from the stars. 397 00:20:48,270 --> 00:20:51,409 Many investigators find their perception of this subject in 398 00:20:51,410 --> 00:20:54,709 general shifting drastically the further they get into their 399 00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:58,173 tenure due to the strangeness of the reports they take. 400 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,739 These cases often leave them asking far more question 401 00:21:01,740 --> 00:21:05,179 than they had going in and occasionally can cause them 402 00:21:05,180 --> 00:21:06,849 to change their personal opinions 403 00:21:06,850 --> 00:21:09,733 on the origin of the phenomenon entirely. 404 00:21:10,921 --> 00:21:14,352 - What's another case that sort of stands out to you? 405 00:21:14,353 --> 00:21:17,719 - Oh there's some fun ones. 406 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,680 There was a case in northern Utah 407 00:21:19,681 --> 00:21:24,639 of two boys that are watching TV late at night, 408 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,259 this was in 1972 I believe it was. 409 00:21:28,260 --> 00:21:31,049 They were watching their favorite show 410 00:21:31,050 --> 00:21:34,609 and all of sudden they're looking at what looks 411 00:21:34,610 --> 00:21:37,059 to be like a science fiction movie. 412 00:21:37,060 --> 00:21:40,989 Instead of a movie the characters in the movie 413 00:21:40,990 --> 00:21:44,379 are looking at them like, "what are you guys doing?" 414 00:21:44,380 --> 00:21:47,009 So they reached up to touch the knob 415 00:21:47,010 --> 00:21:49,489 and a big spark jumped out of the TV set 416 00:21:49,490 --> 00:21:51,449 and knocked him on his keister. 417 00:21:51,450 --> 00:21:54,319 So he's wondering what's going on now. 418 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,632 These creatures, whoever's inside the TV looking at him, 419 00:21:58,633 --> 00:22:00,229 wondering what's going on here 420 00:22:00,230 --> 00:22:02,669 cause they didn't expect it either. 421 00:22:02,670 --> 00:22:04,999 So then the TV goes out, they run outside 422 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,250 and there's a big ufo right over their house. 423 00:22:08,890 --> 00:22:11,207 - Why do you think the ufos appear? 424 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:13,273 - I don't know. 425 00:22:13,274 --> 00:22:16,419 We may be some science class experiment. 426 00:22:16,420 --> 00:22:21,420 They may be here for a multiplicity of reasons. 427 00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:25,136 - The idea that there are other realities 428 00:22:25,137 --> 00:22:29,219 that are typically unseen by us but that occasionally 429 00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:33,239 touch our reality is actually quite ancient. 430 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,756 Writings such as the Bible for example 431 00:22:35,757 --> 00:22:39,612 do describe a world beyond our own 432 00:22:39,613 --> 00:22:42,129 that does interact with ours. 433 00:22:42,130 --> 00:22:46,119 It doesn't necessarily use the language of inter dimensional 434 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,608 but it does use the language of heaven and earth, 435 00:22:48,609 --> 00:22:51,189 or principalities and powers, 436 00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:52,939 that's interpreted in different ways 437 00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:55,219 but can certainly I think be understood 438 00:22:55,220 --> 00:22:58,979 in light of inter dimensional or portals. 439 00:22:58,980 --> 00:23:01,638 So that this idea has actually been around 440 00:23:01,639 --> 00:23:05,029 as long as there's been recorded history. 441 00:23:05,030 --> 00:23:07,739 - What if the ufos aren't coming from above 442 00:23:07,740 --> 00:23:09,849 or an alternate dimension? 443 00:23:09,850 --> 00:23:14,360 One of the most popular theories is that ufos are simply us. 444 00:23:14,361 --> 00:23:16,744 But what does that mean exactly? 445 00:23:16,745 --> 00:23:20,079 In same ways debunkers would fall into this category 446 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,229 as the typical assumption amongst the skeptical community 447 00:23:23,230 --> 00:23:26,019 when it comes to a ufo sighting is that it's either, 448 00:23:26,020 --> 00:23:29,329 a, known aircraft being simply misidentified. 449 00:23:29,330 --> 00:23:31,709 Or b, a hoax perpetrated by 450 00:23:31,710 --> 00:23:34,029 an attention starved human being. 451 00:23:34,030 --> 00:23:38,399 But there are other angles to this particular hypothesis. 452 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,459 - Of course the most conservative theory is 453 00:23:41,460 --> 00:23:45,288 that they are Russian or Chinese technology, 454 00:23:45,289 --> 00:23:48,539 or even black projects that we're not aware of. 455 00:23:48,540 --> 00:23:51,469 - Sometimes you hear about a more terrestrial theory, 456 00:23:51,470 --> 00:23:54,659 where it's human beings, particularly the United States 457 00:23:54,660 --> 00:23:57,241 governments or other governments like Russia or China, 458 00:23:57,242 --> 00:23:59,619 who have developed advanced aircraft 459 00:23:59,620 --> 00:24:02,329 that they are testing in our airspace. 460 00:24:02,330 --> 00:24:05,379 - And that's another possibility that the hard part 461 00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:08,656 for that one is that we've been seeing this technology 462 00:24:08,657 --> 00:24:11,019 demonstrated for a long time. 463 00:24:11,020 --> 00:24:13,679 For instance in world war ii when we're 464 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,519 flying propellor planes they're seeing these 465 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,359 balls of light zipping around all over. 466 00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:20,899 That's technology certainly that was beyond 467 00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:23,769 what we have now let alone back then. 468 00:24:23,770 --> 00:24:25,196 - Then you have people who say, 469 00:24:25,197 --> 00:24:29,911 "well flying saucers really are ships that have time travel 470 00:24:29,912 --> 00:24:33,476 "and they're us from the future coming back 471 00:24:33,477 --> 00:24:35,409 "to try and save humanity." 472 00:24:35,410 --> 00:24:37,499 Some people believe the little alien grays 473 00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:40,829 are what humans eventually will evolve into 474 00:24:40,830 --> 00:24:42,149 and they're coming back in order 475 00:24:42,150 --> 00:24:45,333 to try to save the future so to speak. 476 00:24:46,350 --> 00:24:50,019 - Well everyone has a theory as to the origins of ufos 477 00:24:50,020 --> 00:24:51,499 the best source of information 478 00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:54,579 tends to be the eyewitnesses themselves. 479 00:24:54,580 --> 00:24:57,469 People like Shawn Kevin Jason and Sam sherran 480 00:24:57,470 --> 00:25:01,439 have seen similar yet unidentifiable craft in the sky 481 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,099 and both have disparate theories 482 00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:06,009 about what may have been piloting them. 483 00:25:06,010 --> 00:25:09,039 It makes me wonder, if there is an aspect of theorizing 484 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,789 about where these things are coming from that acts as 485 00:25:11,790 --> 00:25:14,849 a sort of coping mechanism for dealing with a phenomenon 486 00:25:14,850 --> 00:25:18,309 that we might never have any greater understanding of. 487 00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:21,465 After all if we can at least catalog a sighting as merely 488 00:25:21,466 --> 00:25:25,379 secret government craft or aliens from outer space then 489 00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:28,329 we've already answered a number of the questions we might 490 00:25:28,330 --> 00:25:31,123 have otherwise spent the rest of our lives asking. 491 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,949 - I actually had a sighting when I was 12 years old. 492 00:25:35,950 --> 00:25:38,399 My origin story. 493 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,719 It was in 1995, it was the summer 494 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,939 and I was fishing off the Saint Lawrence river, 495 00:25:43,940 --> 00:25:48,189 and I was with my parents, they were inside our motel. 496 00:25:48,190 --> 00:25:49,299 We were staying at a motel. 497 00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:51,889 The dock was right off of our motel 498 00:25:51,890 --> 00:25:53,059 and it was turning dark. 499 00:25:53,060 --> 00:25:57,449 As I'm reeling my line in I saw these lights in the water 500 00:25:57,450 --> 00:26:00,959 and I thought something was under the water. 501 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,529 So I literally got down, put my face in the water 502 00:26:04,530 --> 00:26:07,399 and then I realized it was a reflection. 503 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,400 So I look up and I just saw three white lights 504 00:26:13,070 --> 00:26:15,369 in a triangular formation 505 00:26:15,370 --> 00:26:20,299 and a red orange hazy ball in the middle. 506 00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:24,639 I didn't see a structure or machinery or anything, 507 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,099 I just saw the lights in a triangular formation. 508 00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:29,549 Just floating. 509 00:26:29,550 --> 00:26:33,509 They started to move across the water hovering silently, 510 00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:35,187 there was no noise whatsoever, 511 00:26:35,188 --> 00:26:38,909 and I started yelling for my dad to come out and see this. 512 00:26:38,910 --> 00:26:41,079 He did come out and actually seen the tail end 513 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,619 of this thing as it headed toward Canada, 514 00:26:43,620 --> 00:26:45,589 and then it just disappeared out of sight. 515 00:26:45,590 --> 00:26:49,441 Now I think looking back at it as an adult I would think 516 00:26:49,442 --> 00:26:53,744 it was probably just a top secret military project. 517 00:26:53,745 --> 00:26:55,399 This was the '90s. 518 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,749 Stealth bombers were just starting to be tested. 519 00:26:59,750 --> 00:27:02,189 - What was your sense about the origins 520 00:27:02,190 --> 00:27:03,589 of what you were looking at? 521 00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:05,281 Did you think it was extraterrestrial? 522 00:27:05,282 --> 00:27:08,919 Or secret government craft, or what did you think? 523 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,529 - That was a tough one because the lights 524 00:27:11,530 --> 00:27:15,189 told me it was manmade, Carl sagan would say any 525 00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:19,549 sufficiently advanced technology would appear like magic. 526 00:27:19,550 --> 00:27:21,872 And there was nothing magical about these lights. 527 00:27:21,873 --> 00:27:24,649 They were standard filament bulbs that have been 528 00:27:24,650 --> 00:27:27,209 around for a long time and you have the lights, 529 00:27:27,210 --> 00:27:29,429 you have the color, you have the shape. 530 00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:34,430 That was from my perspective an advanced stealth aircraft. 531 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,859 - Would it be disappointing to you 532 00:27:36,860 --> 00:27:39,503 if it was strictly government made? 533 00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:43,269 - I wouldn't be disappointed if it was military 534 00:27:43,270 --> 00:27:47,179 or human craft of some kind for whatever purpose, 535 00:27:47,180 --> 00:27:48,379 I wouldn't be disappointed. 536 00:27:48,380 --> 00:27:50,949 I'd be perhaps a little worried, 537 00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:53,579 perhaps a little bit betrayed. 538 00:27:53,580 --> 00:27:55,801 We're in such a world now where 539 00:27:55,802 --> 00:27:58,249 if they have this kind of technology, 540 00:27:58,250 --> 00:28:00,169 there are so many problems in the world 541 00:28:00,170 --> 00:28:03,149 that they could be fixing yet they're advancing 542 00:28:03,150 --> 00:28:05,659 all of this into that direction 543 00:28:05,660 --> 00:28:07,649 and we're being lied to when it could be put 544 00:28:07,650 --> 00:28:09,969 to better use is a frightening prospect. 545 00:28:09,970 --> 00:28:11,809 Because what are they using it for? 546 00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:12,849 Where are they going? 547 00:28:12,850 --> 00:28:15,223 And potentially how frightening could that be? 548 00:28:16,610 --> 00:28:19,329 - Do you have a personal opinion on if these things exist, 549 00:28:19,330 --> 00:28:23,221 if ufos exist, what is behind the phenomenon? 550 00:28:23,222 --> 00:28:25,409 - Yes they exist or people wouldn't 551 00:28:25,410 --> 00:28:27,359 talk about it or see them or all that. 552 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:28,829 No I don't know what it is. 553 00:28:28,830 --> 00:28:30,639 I really don't know what's behind it. 554 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,409 I don't know if its aliens, I don't know if its coming 555 00:28:32,410 --> 00:28:34,839 from us, I don't know if its misidentifications. 556 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,609 It's probably all those things and more. 557 00:28:36,610 --> 00:28:38,749 The one thing I do know is that be get affected, 558 00:28:38,750 --> 00:28:40,659 people get affected very deeply. 559 00:28:40,660 --> 00:28:42,829 They have their whole lives changed in a few seconds. 560 00:28:42,830 --> 00:28:44,505 So if somebody says this is what it is, 561 00:28:44,506 --> 00:28:48,639 it's like, okay that's your view of what it is, 562 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,309 I don't know if it is what it is. 563 00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:53,959 And especially with ufo thing there may not be any is there. 564 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,679 The is is what we make of it in many cases. 565 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,753 It's like a giant rorschach blot, 566 00:28:58,754 --> 00:29:01,889 ufology is, or the subject I think. 567 00:29:01,890 --> 00:29:04,557 (Intense music) 568 00:29:08,410 --> 00:29:10,949 - I don't really have a theory of origin. 569 00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:12,899 I guess maybe it's because I'm still trying to 570 00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:15,279 figure out if these things exist as 571 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,789 we've been told they do for decades now. 572 00:29:17,790 --> 00:29:20,289 Maybe there's something going on that we haven't 573 00:29:20,290 --> 00:29:23,359 even created a hypothesis about just yet. 574 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,419 Or maybe the phenomenon is so difficult to grasp 575 00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:28,959 that every time we think we have a handle on it 576 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,809 it will change form once again and slip through our fingers 577 00:29:31,810 --> 00:29:33,993 and leave us floundering for answers. 578 00:29:35,545 --> 00:29:38,888 Witness like Ryan, Sam, and Shawn remind me 579 00:29:38,889 --> 00:29:42,299 of Norman muscarello or any of the other witnesses 580 00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:45,249 that played a role in the exeter incident. 581 00:29:45,250 --> 00:29:47,749 Following the incident in exeter the air force 582 00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:51,084 arrived to instigate the event and as with many cases 583 00:29:51,085 --> 00:29:54,119 project blue book simply wrote the whole thing off 584 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,992 as misidentification of known aircraft. 585 00:29:56,993 --> 00:29:59,959 In the years following skeptics came forward 586 00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:02,409 to offer their own alternative explanations 587 00:30:02,410 --> 00:30:05,079 for what it was that was witnessed that night. 588 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,789 All of them failing to enlighten those were present for 589 00:30:07,790 --> 00:30:12,008 the initial event as to what it was they'd actually seen. 590 00:30:12,009 --> 00:30:16,239 In 1980 Norman muscarello gave an in depth interview 591 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,209 wherein he was asked what he believed 592 00:30:18,210 --> 00:30:20,759 he actually saw in exeter that night. 593 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,109 His response was that we would have be naive 594 00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:26,779 and ignorant to believe ourselves alone in the universe. 595 00:30:26,780 --> 00:30:29,713 But ended by stating that he didn't know what it was. 596 00:30:31,776 --> 00:30:35,779 Muscarello died in 2003 and up to the time of his death 597 00:30:35,780 --> 00:30:39,313 insisted that what he'd seen was something extraordinary. 598 00:30:43,470 --> 00:30:47,533 Coming up on the next episode of on the trail of ufos. 599 00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:52,589 - This is a Nevada national security site area here. 600 00:30:52,590 --> 00:30:53,590 So they don't have to play by 601 00:30:53,591 --> 00:30:55,339 the same rules as the military. 602 00:30:55,340 --> 00:30:57,799 - And this is one of those where one person 603 00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,939 came out and said that he worked on back 604 00:30:59,940 --> 00:31:02,629 engineering alien technology at area 51. 605 00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:05,449 - Well of course the rumor was that Bob Lazar 606 00:31:05,450 --> 00:31:07,439 was working out there reverse engineering 607 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,829 extraterrestrial space craft 608 00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:12,399 and maybe they possess alien bodies. 609 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,449 - I knew Bob Lazar before he worked at area s-4. 610 00:31:15,450 --> 00:31:17,839 So several months we met at John leer's house 611 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:18,976 and he came and he said, 612 00:31:18,977 --> 00:31:21,186 "you guys were totally freaking right. 613 00:31:21,187 --> 00:31:23,513 "I'm working on one of the things!" 614 00:31:24,369 --> 00:31:27,036 (Intense music) 615 00:31:45,208 --> 00:31:47,958 (Dramatic music)